"The Beatles had a standard to live up to," admits John Lennon, lighting up yet another 4-inch link in an endless chain of battered cigarettes. "And for that reason, when the Beatles went into the studio, they had to stay in for at least six months. Today, I just couldn't stand to be locked up in a studio for that length of time."
Lennon's reason is as simple as it is short: "I don't want a standard to live up to." "You know," he tells me that muggy night in New York, "when the Beatles cartoons come on the TV every Sunday, I still get a kick outta watching them..it's just like leaving home - after that you automatically get on with your parents."
I bring us back to the present and ask: How much has Yoko influenced John, and how much has John influenced Yoko? Lennon displays obvious pleasure at the subject. "She," he begins with an affectionate smile at Yoko, "changed my life completely. Not just physically..the only way I can describe it is that Yoko was like an acid trip or the first time you got drunk. It was that big a change, and that's just about it. I can't really describe it to this day."
I put it to them that an example would be appreciated and they both choose their new album, "Sometime In New York City" as an illustration. Again, it's John who leads off: "If you really wanna know, Yoko writes all her own chords and music completely. If I can get in a riff or something, then I'm lucky. A lot of people don't know this but Yoko was classically trained from the age of four, and that as you know, has its rewards and its disadvantages, in the same way of any training. It's always hard to hit upon specific details, but for instance, the idea for a song like "Imagine" came out of Yoko's influence regardless of what the format of that song was. Half the way I'm thinking, musically, philosophically and every other way is her influence both as a woman and an artist. Her influence is so overwhelming that it was big enough not only for me to change my life with the Beatles, but also my private life, which has nothing to do with how sexually attractive we are to each other."
For Lennon it's time for another cigarette, for Yoko a chance to offer her observations. "Naturally, my life also changed. Mainly what we give each other is energy, because we're both energetic people and when we're in the company of other people who we might feel are less energetic, then we have to give more. For instance, if we're on stage and John is reading a song really good, and I have to come after him, then that means that I've got to do my very best. So then I do a screaming piece or something, and then John does a screaming piece after that, and then he has to stop me. That's precisely what was happening during our concert at Madison Square Garden. Many of our close friends noticed we were really sparking off each other."
John interjects with his own interpretation: "I mean, I got up from the piano in one number, and Jeezus, it was like following an act or something. Phew, it was just the same as competing in the Olympics when you've really got to box your best. It was really weird."
Suddenly Lennon stops talking, leans over, and with a teasing growl, roars into
Yoko's right ear: "Go on luv, tell him how I influenced yer."
She laughs nervously, tries to ignore his request. "The thing is.."
But she can't complete the sentence as she breaks up in a fit of laughter.
"Alright," she concedes.
"That was the question, remember," says John in an effort to redirect her train of
thought.
"OK then I'll answer it. It's obvious, I think, that these days my songs are all
rock.."
"And what were they before" intrudes Lennon, temporarily taking over the role of
interviewer.
"Well I was mainly doing my voice experiements. You know, screaming and all that,
but then I got very interested in the rock beat because it is like the heartbeat.
It's very basic and a very healthy thing. Most music, other than rock, went away
from that healthy direction and into perversion. That's the way I feel about it."
"Just virtuosity." John.
"Actually, I think the most obvious change has been on my side, which is that my
musical style changed. Whereas John is virtually sticking to what he's always done.
But I adopted rock."
Yoko's last four words prompt Lennon to enthuse: "Yeah..yeah" prior to proudly pointing out to his wife: "but I did that Cambridge thing with you. Now wasn't that an adaptation?"
Yoko, unperturbed: "Rock is a whole new field for me and I get inspired so much that I find that now a lot of songs are coming out of me. Also, I think I was getting to a point where I didn't have too much competition. John was always with boys who were working together and therefore in direct competition. That was his situation. I was far more isolated."
She pauses and Lennon takes over the conversation: "It just came to me - for the two of us it was a question of mutual adjustment, with all the joys and pleasures of marriage on an artistic and musical level. However, it's not just the music, or our lifestyle, or where we're living. The whole change is happening in the space between us. Yoko coined a phrase..'Rock Square'..and I was definitely in that box. I would never have admitted it while it was happening, but nevertheless, it was going on. What happens is that you suddenly become exactly what you didn't like about other forms of music, be it jazz or classical or whatever, and then you have to admit that it should really be like this or that. Now, when someone comes along and says 'no', it can be whatever you want it to be. That's a very big change to go through. But after you experience it, then you loosen. You feel free to do whatever you want."
The facts behind Lennon's candor reveal that at the dizziest heights of Beatlemania he lost contact with reality. "That happened many times, but then a lot of other people go the same way. Just being, quote, 'A Star' or whatever it was that happened, made it a little more unreal. So perhaps the periods lasted just a little bit longer. Look, a working guy will get lost for a weekend, get pissed, and forget who he is or dream that he's so-and-so in his car. Well, it was just the same with us. But instead of getting blotto for a weekend, we got blotto for two months, trying to forget whatever it is that everybody tries to forget all the time. Instead of worrying about who is gonna pay the milkman, we worried who was gonna pay whatever it was we'd gone out and spent. I think that around the time of 'Help!' I began to wonder what the hell was happening, because things were definitely starting to get very weird by then. But then, I can only judge it by 'A Hard Day's Night'. At that time, we still had one foot in the backyard."
(Answering the reporter's question about today's rock stars, in '72, and whether he feels sorry for their struggle to gain fame) "I dunno if I feel sorry for these people or not. But I do think about it. The first thing that strikes me is the things these stars say in the musical papers changes so often. Yer know what I mean: like when they keep on saying, 'We're the greatest.' I mean, when I read about Dave Bowie bitchin' with Marc Bolan, who is bitchin' with Fred Astaire..actually, it's a bit of a laugh when you're not doing it yourself. I imagine it's all down to the fact of the bigger you become, the more insecure you feel. I'd like to think that people could learn from the mistakes others have made. But they don't. It's like you can't tell anybody nothing, ever. I can't learn myself from other people's mistakes. There's nobody I can think of, where he did that, and that's where he goofed. You can sing about it, because that's your own experience, but you can't expect anyone to think along the lines..'oh, so they did that and that happened, so we won't do that.' You can't do it. It never works."
Self-indulgent is a put-down constantly aimed at John Lennon, and his reply to such criticism is explicit: "When people say I'm self-indulgent, it's only because I'm not doing what they want me to do. Simply because they're still hung up on my past. If you've noticed, when they say such things, they don't usually refer to the music. Actually, I got it down the other day. People talk about not what you do, but how you do it, which is like discussing how you dress or if your hair is long or short. They can say what they want, but the artist knows best, anyway. and when you work at such an energy level, like Yoko and me, then you're doomed to be heavily criticised."
The cigarettes have run out, so has the tape, and we've talked ourselves dry. I have a plane to catch at noon and the Lennons have a live TV show to rehearse. New York City..New York City..Que Pasa New York, Que Pasa New York. Que Pasa John and Yoko.