STAND BY ME: THE ELLIOT MINTZ INTERVIEW: PART II

EM: With respect to Sean, I was in the living room the day they brought him home from the hospital. I have known him from that point to this point. I attended every one of his birthdays for the first five, six or seven years of his life, either at Tavern on the Green or at the house. I was with him every Christmas morning. We'd make it a tradition to come to New York and go shopping with John at FAO Schwarz a couple of nights before Christmas and be there when Sean would wake up in the morning. We videotaped when Sean would open his gifts. We did it even in December of 1980 because Yoko wanted to maintain continuity in Sean's life, so in fact, there was a Christmas tree in the Dakota the same month that John was murdered. We did wake up Sean and he did open his presents. We played songs, and Yoko, myself and Sam (Havadtoy) celebrated Christmas together.

I've seen him go through his schooling. He started visiting me in California when he was arund 10 or 11. He spent a couple of weeks with me in my old house in Laurel Canyon. He would visit me in the evening and then during the day, I would drive him over to spend time at Michael Jackson's house in Encino. He came to visit me last year in Los Angeles with Max (Leroy) and he just left here a few months ago. I last saw him about three weeks ago when I was in New York. I was there with Don (Johnson) and Melanie (Griffith) to promote "Paradise" and when I would leave Don and Melanie in the evening, I would go up to the Dakota to spend a couple of hours with Sean and Yoko. I spoke to him about a week ago on the telephone.

.."The best of all the Lennons.."

I go through the litany of exposure to Sean so people just understand that I know of what I speak. I've seen him and interacted with him throughout his entire life. He is the most well-adjusted and the best of all the Lennons I have ever known. He is as a person much more clear, real, down to earth than his Dad ever was. He's loving, giving and generous. He has the very best of his Mother and Father's personalities. He is fiercely independent in his ways, in his style and in his thinking, but very kind, giving and real. Whenever we go anywhere, just seeing him interact with other people, he does not come off like the spoiled son of an ex-Beatle. He comes off as a real guy. There is a naturalness and absence of pretention about him and there is a warmth, love and humor that is beyond imagination. When he stays with me, we have an understanding that he can't do anything that could result in his getting hurt or in trouble in any way. Outside of that there are no rules. He can go wherever he wants, see whoever he wants. There are no curfews, there are no rules.

In spite of that, given a choice, he'd rather stay home and do his homework. The options for him in New York all the time are to go out and attend all these events, parties and this, that and the other thing. Because he is such an incredibly good student, he spends about three hours a night just working on his homework. Yoko wants him to assert himself as he chooses, but participates constantly in his life and in his world. They are not just Mother/Son, they are also good friends. I might be revealing a minor secret, but she called me two nights ago and told me that she had just finished typing one of Sean's homework assignments. Yoko as stenographer. I've never seen a better relationship between a parent and child than Sean's and Yoko's.

IK: Since you know Sean so well, maybe you can tell us how he feels about these tell-all books. Is he getting fed up with them, does it hurt him emotionally, or does he just get angry?

EM: I think the first emotion must be confusion. He was five when his father was killed. While his early recollections are very clear in some areas, these things that are written in books must be baffling to him. Whereas I know he doesn't read the books, I have told him about some of the more colorful charges in the Goldman book, the Seaman book, the Pang book, just so he would be aware of it.

There is no way of telling what impact this kind of material has upon a child when you're talking about his parents. Psychologically, emotionally, I'm not qualified to answer the question. On the outside, Sean appears to be more angered than any single emotion. He's not grief-stricken about it, he doesn't appear to be shocked about it or offended. He doesn't seem to be uncetain as to the legitimacy, he just has a feeling of anger toward anyone who would, A. Make up stories about his Father or B. Try to create pain for his Mother. That is his reaction to the books.

IK: I hurt for him when I saw the page of the New York Post, "John and Yoko's Dark Secrets Revealed." You have to wonder how this affects a 16-year-old boy who's going to school. What happens with his friends? Do they tease him about it?

EM: I was with him in New York the day that particular New York Post headline appeared and he seemed shaken and upset by it. He spends most of his time, of course with Maxie (LeRoy) and Maxie has a very healthy perspective about these things. The two of them have kind of an unspoken lifetime alliance. They are partners in soul, so I suspect that the two of them reassure each other the world has not gone mad. I don't know how other kids in school or other adults involve themselves in this stuff. I would presume that most people just would not talk to him about it. I also presume that most 16-year-olds don't read the books or have too much of an interest in it. Sean plays his cards pretty close to his chest. He never complains. He never says that somebody said something unpleasant about his Mother, but I know that if he and Fred (Seaman) met on the street corner that Sean's approach with dealing with the situation would be different than Elliot's approach.

IK: What do you mean by that?

EM: I think he would give Fred a piece of his mind. When I did the Larry King Show, after the show, I took a cab up to the Dakota to be with Sean. (Yoko was still in Geneva.) Sean gave me a big hug. He'd watched the show and he said he didn't know how I could remain that calm. So when I say that his approach is different than mine,if I ran into Fred tomorrow, if there would be any conversation between us at all, I would just tell him again how I feel what he has done is such a discredit to John's memory and such a terrible thing to Yoko. He knows the words I would say to him, but they would not be said out of anger or contempt, just extraordinary disappointment. Sean wouldn't have that kind of patience. He'd give him a real piece of his mind.

IK: A little bit like his Dad would do it?

EM: Yes, a lot like his Dad would do it.

IK: Why doesn't Yoko sue for slander?

EM: It's a complicated question. First let me say that I'm not a lawyer so I'm not really qualified to answer and just for legal reasons, I'm compelled to say that the Estate reserves all of its legal rights and remedies, which means I'm not suggesting that Yoko will never sue Seaman or anybody else. Having said that, my understanding of the law is, to prove libel, slander or defamation of character, you have to prove damages. You have to illustrate to the court how when something was written about you, it damaged your life in some way. For the most part, the court tends to look at money as the main determining factor. Let's say that one of the police officers named in Fred's book sues for defamation of character. Let's say he is fired from the New York City police department because of these charges, he would presumably be able to sue Fred for the amount of money he would have earned as a police officer, plus his pension, plus additional damages and would probably have a very good case.

On the other hand, it would probably be difficult for Yoko to prove damages. It's a strange way the courts have set this up. I know that they're very concerned about the issue of preserving people's right of freedom of expression, so the First Amendment to the Constitution seems to carry more weight than the irresponsible things written about somebody or lies said about somebody. It would also, in a court case, necessitate court appearances, cross-examination, depositions. Yoko having to face Fred or Fred's attorneys, perhaps having to respond to questions about her intimate life with John. Is it worth it? To what end? What does she get out of it at the end of the line if she wins? And, in the process, do you not wind up simply selling more books to people because you've now turned it into a kind of media circus? That's the reason that most people don't sue book publishers or tabloids, simply because it just isn't worth it.

THE JAPANESE RELATIVES

IK: This is kind of an oddball question and I don't know if you'll have any insight about it, but one thing that I've noticed is that John's English relatives are very outspoken about John and Yoko's life together - their marriage, the bed-ins and other activities. They show up at Beatle events and they talk a lot to the press, while Yoko's family is never heard from. I'm wondering if this is a cultural thing, or if they've been asked not to talk to the press.

EM: I've only met Yoko's Mother. I met her first in Japan when we all went there in the early 70's and I met her again in New York and I've met Yoko's sister. To the best of my recollection, those are the only relatives of Yoko's that I've ever met. For the most part, Yoko's relatives are obviously older because Yoko's older than John. Most of her relatives still live in Japan and speak just Japanese and did not interact as much with John and Yoko as maybe the English side of the family did. Aunt Mimi has always been there, she's been there from the beginning and God love her, she's still there, always feisty, firey, opinionated, strong, a fierce defender of John's memory and has much to say all the time.

I think it's really culture, linguistics and distance - proximity. John and Yoko simply did not visit Japan frequently to visit with Yoko's family and not many of them came to this country. At the risk of sounding culturally chauvinistic, although I'm not an expert, it appears to me that in their responses to things, the Japanese mentality is a little bit more introspective, soft-spoken and subtle.

SEAN AND JULIAN

IK: One thing that people are always wondering about is how close are Sean and Julian? Do they see each other very much?

EM: A little more so now than ever before. I know that the two of them speak on the telephone with greater frequency, they've seen each other now socially. Now Sean is 16, so it's okay if Julian calls and says 'let's meet someplace and have something to eat,' he can just get up and do that. He couldn't have when he was 11. There's more for Julian to talk to a teenager about than there was when Sean was 9. I know that Julian has incredible, incredible love for Sean. He has expressed that to me constantly and he has said to me that he wants to get to know Sean better. Sean has a great appreciation for Julian's talents and abilities and feels a closeness to Julian on a brother level. I don't think they've spent enough time alone with each other to really cement the bond of their relationship beyond the commonality of this identical last name, but I suspect that as the years go by, they'll grow closer. The short answer to your question is, that they have a good relationship.

IK: Sean is showing signs of leaning towards a musical career. Have Yoko and Julian given him any advice about this?

EM: No, Yoko insists that she'll be happy just seeing Sean do whatever will make him happy. She did not try to steer him toward or away from music. I've heard some of Sean's music. I've heard some of the songs that he's written that he's played for me on guitar. Already, lyrically, some of the material is stunning. I don't know what form his musical future is going to take. I presume that he will first want to finish his education because that's uppermost in his mind. There are no immediate plans of making a record or forming a band and performing somwhere, but he is writing music, playing it and rehearsing with friends of his who are musicians. Although I'm no expert in this area, I think he has an amazing amount of talent, especially lyrically - he's extremely insightful.

ONOBOX!

IK: Switching to Yoko's music, we're hearing about a CD retrospective coming out. I'm wondering, when it's all ready and packaged, is Yoko going to promote it? Will she be doing any interviews on television or any performances? Will we see Yoko in the next few months?

EM: I'd like to see her do some stuff to bring attention to it. It's as we speak, going to be on the Rykodisc label. It's going to be a massive collection of her work, a very large, impressive boxed set. I think they're targeting a release date of January or February. I don't see her going out and actually performing. Yoko's not the kind of person who goes into these amazing promotional tours, criss- crossing the country doing different talk shows, MTV and this stuff. She's just not that kind of promoter, that's not her style or her way. I assume that she'll do some things to draw public attention to it, but it's difficult for the artist to say, "Here, buy my product."

I think because she's so well-known, if people are just aware of the fact that the collection is available, those who care and are interested will go purchase it. Those who don't like her music will avoid it. I don't think you can find a lot of people in-between. That's never been the case with Yoko. There is a specific audience that finds her work engaging, experimental, meaningful, who have been touched by her in some very special, specific way. I presume that they're the ones who are going to purchase it. But it's not something that you can do a sales job with.

IK: Whatever happened to the book that Yoko was writing?

EM: It's still a project in the works. It's something that she occasionally returns to. I know that when the project began, she gave it a great deal of attention and then I think just got a little bit derailed. I don't know when she'll get back to it. I always encourage her to do her autobiography - I think that would be the ultimate book on the entire John and Yoko experience, she being the only person qualified to write about that.

IK: IK readers sometimes ask me if Yoko likes to receive mail. I received a letter froom a man who told me he would love to write to Yoko and tell her how much he has enjoyed her music throughout the years, but was afraid that by writing to her at the Dakota, he'd be considered a "crazy fan" because of what she's gone through since December 1980. Do you know how Yoko feels about receiving mail from fans?

EM: She loves receiving mail. She reads her mail personally, unlike a lot of public figures who have services to answer their mail, or secretaries or assistants who open it. She does not do that - they've never done that. John and Yoko always got their own mail and they always read it and in many cases, privately responded. Yoko really feels that the mailbag is kind of like a mirror that reflects what it is that she's doing, so I would encourage people who have something to say to her or feelings to express, feel free to do so. I've always found that the experience (of receiving mail) gave her great pleasure.

THE LOST LENNON TAPES

IK: A letter I just received the other day gave me a chuckle. Someone had read or heard Fred Seaman say that John was a conservative who was for Reagan. This person was dismayed andsaid he could forgive John for a lot of things, but not being for Reagan. Was John a conservative?

EM: John was NOT a political conservative. I think the reportage is consistent with Fred's other reportage.

IK: You probably can't even answer this, but how long will "The Lost Lennon Tapes" live on?

EM: I can't answer it. I had no idea when we did the first show that we would now be beginning our fourth year. It's absolutely staggering to me. I was in Westwood One last week where we just taped three shows that brings us up to somewhere around 175 and 180 one-hour episodes of the program. I just did not believe at the beginning that there would still be the kind of interest that there is at this time.

For the show to continue, there have to be three components: There still has to be material worthy of broadcast. There is. There has to be enough interest on the part of people who listen to the radio to continue to hear the program. Apparently that is the case because more people listen to it now than did during the first year. It's won an award in Australia recently as being the best syndicated show in Australia and last year the show won a very distinguished New York award as one of the best syndicated radio shows in America. It's heard in foreign countries - we estimate maybe six or seven million people listen to it every week. The third component is, of course, that there is still interest on the part of advertisers to sponsor the broadcast. The show is always completely sponsored. There are advertisers waiting to get on the program. So as long as those three elements are in place, we roll on.

I think that it's longevity is just a testament to John's genius because there is simply no other human being on Planet Earth that this could have been done on. It's never been done before and I could not imagine it being done in the future. No one else left behind such a rich, recorded ongoing legacy. It amazes me as much as it amazes the people who listen to it. However, there will come a time when we will find out that people have had enough. When that day arrives, we will figure out some way of doing the last "Lost Lennon" show. I'm not certain what that show will sound like. It'll be an unhappy day for me when it arrives because it'll be the end of an amazing personal oddysey for me. I met John on the radio. The first time I ever heard him was as a Beatle coming through my radio. The first time I ever spoke to him was on a radio station over the phone. The radio has kind of symbolized our relationship.

It's the way I met Yoko as well. I have a tremendous love for the medium. It's almost like I've been visiting with (John) once a week now for the past few years on the show and I know after the last radio program, that will probably be the complete disengagement between myself and him. I guess a part of me is not prepared or equipped to let go after all these years.

IK: If you, by some wave of a magic wand, could speak to John just for a minute or two, what would you tell him about his family in 1991?

EM: He has cause to be very, very proud that if he had the ability, and maybe he has, to look at Yoko, Sean and Julian, he would feel nothing but pride in how remarkably these three individuals have emerged from the ashes of an unspeakable parting. (If he could visit Earth) knowing John, he would first run to Yoko, then Sean. It's just the way they were in his life. He would be entranced by Sean. Sean would be his best friend. He and Sean would probably be doing everything together as partners. I know that he would have great joy in Julian's accomplishments and be very pleased with the way Julian is living his life now and how responsible he is, how real and down to earth he is. I think he would have every reason to feel nothing but pleasure. The only regret is that he ran out of time.

YOKO: BEACON OF SANITY AND HOPE

IK: What is your overall lasting personal impression of John and Yoko as a couple, as parents and as friends of yours.

EM: As a couple and as parents, they simply were the prototypes of families in the future. I'm sure that somewhere along the line somebody must have been talking about househusbandry before 1980, but I simply don't remember who that person ever was. I think that he and Yoko popularized something that we now take for granted in the '90's. They were on the front lines of a cultural transition in terms of the way people raised their families, the way men and women, partners, felt it okay to occasionally reverse the roles or throw out the definition completely. So in terms of husband and wife, man and woman and parents to their children, they were and are role models of the highest order.

In terms of my friendship with them, it changed my life. I've been with Yoko now half of my adult life. How my world changed - I was just an L.A. disc jockey in 1971. Having done 2,000 interviews before I picked up the phone to call Yoko and ask if she'd like to be a guest on the broadcast, my life has changed. It's been inextricably linked to theirs. Their impact upon me has been greater than the impact that anyone else has ever had on me. I can't imagine what life would be like without Yoko as my friend. There is nobody who I trust more, love more or respect more. She has been a beacon of sanity, hope and optimism. We've supported and looked after each other.

I unfortunately have never married, or haven't married up to this moment and don't have a child of my own. Sean is about the closest I've ever gotten and maybe the closest I will ever get. It's good enough for me. I feel very fortunate and gifted that we all found ourselves watching the wheels go 'round together for awhile. I just wish we had some more time.